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Hello, I have received email from someone from the official Slovakia support (even when my website isn't slovak but czech, but it's not big deal) and later from someone else that my website has wrong copyright. I'm sure it's written correctly by the PHPFusion Licencing here on this web. So is it right or not?
See:

And if I could, I've another question. Is it legally to sell self-designed themes (that comes from the Gillette theme)? Not the whole fusion, just the theme on already existing web with this PHPFusion.

Thank you very much in advance for your reply,
Regards, Thomas.

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Hi,

The copyright needs to be in the footer , not in the page .

Regards,
Faga

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needs to be? :/ I think it is not possible because it will ruin the web structure... Of course I tried it. Is it problem even when the copyright appears on every page?

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The copyright notice doesn't need to be in the footer, as long as it is visible.
You can't enforce where a copyright notice is positioned on a site.

So i would say your copyright notice is fine.

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Quote

Mordak wrote:

The copyright notice doesn't need to be in the footer, as long as it is visible.
You can't enforce where a copyright notice is positioned on a site.

So i would say your copyright notice is fine.

Oh, thanks for reply. It helped me, so i don't need to care about it anymore.

Could someone please answer on my 2nd question (see post #1). Thanks!

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Mordak wrote:

The copyright notice doesn't need to be in the footer, as long as it is visible.
You can't enforce where a copyright notice is positioned on a site.

So i would say your copyright notice is fine.

wow, i wish you were right, but i don't think that anyone told the german counterparts of php fusion that it was ok to put the copyright in a panel (where it could plainly be seen on all pages) with a great big header "copyright notice". i'm not even sure that they read the liscense agreement which doesn't even state that it has to remain where they put it. after i went to the german page to ask for help with a problem, i was immediately jumped on by one schmuck about the copyright and then another about the sponsor panel that i had. seems that the germans don't understand that when you offer something for free and i promote it on my page that you are considered a sponsor. no, this schmuck thinks it has something to do with money... maybe it's the way they think. it gets even better... i was ordered and threatened to put the copyright back at the bottom, even though the site looks like crap with it there and it's against the agreement in the liscense, then oppressed that they were gonna have the site taken down by my provider. the moderator decided to edit my last post and insert something that wasn't even from me. aren't they just so helpful. here's the best part, the post was then deleted, but not before i printed the entire post in a pdf file, and then my account was also deleted, allowing me no more access to help. all of this happend in less than 7min.

i can't tell you how many sites i've looked at with fusion, but i do have a list of 153 that either moved it, or completely deleted it so i would be able to present it to the committee of our club and cover us against the liscense. now i have to go through this learning process again for a new system because i can't get the german help anymore?

if nick jones doesn't want to be a sponsor and have his product promoted, then he needs to put a price on it and leave it at that, otherwise as long as he gives me something that i can change to my needs free of charge and show credits back to him, then he is a sponsor. if i want to list php-fusion in my sponsor panel, then i can do so. no one said you have to give money to be one... a service is enough.

probably get banned from here too...

just my 2 cents worth...

Edited by RTamer on 04-07-2011 12:05, 13 y

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No one is getting banned for asking if their interpretation of the Copyright text rules are right or wrong.
You tell that to "Zem Deutsche".

However we have rules. I will quote and link to them The link is public.
http://www.php-fusion.co.uk/viewpage.php?page_id=6

Quote

With adherence to that, the Copyright Footer must contain the following:
• "Powered by PHPFusion" is optional but is requested for clarity purposes;
• Copyright PHPFusion 2002-2011 Nick Jones
- with "PHPFusion" linking to http://php-fusion.co.uk;
• Released as free software without warranties;
• Link to the Affero GPL version 3 license;
- http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/agpl-3.0.html.

Please observe that the title says copyright footer, even if footer as such is not specified in the following text.
Thats it.

In theory you are a copyright violator, Maailmameister, but I will not ban you if the footer requirement is the only flaw. I do not have the final say on this though.

But you "could" insert a <br> or two ( or a <p> ) and center it.

I see your layout issue, thats a big image. A tip might be looking in to "map" and insert the php-fusion copyright footet in the image, but that would also be wrong, in theory. Another approach is to split the image in two halfs and put the copyrigt just above the romb, or arrow.

Edited by Homdax on 01-07-2011 14:40, 13 y

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Quote

No one is getting banned for asking if their interpretation of the Copyright text rules are right or wrong.
You tell that to "Zem Deutsche".

However we have rules. I will quote and link to them The link is public.
http://www.php-fusion.co.uk/viewpage.php?page_id=6

Quote
With adherence to that, the Copyright Footer must contain the following:
• "Powered by PHPFusion" is optional but is requested for clarity purposes;
• Copyright PHPFusion 2002-2011 Nick Jones
- with "PHPFusion" linking to http://php-fusion.co.uk;
• Released as free software without warranties;
• Link to the Affero GPL version 3 license;
- http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/agpl-3.0.html.

Please observe that the title says copyright footer, even if footer as such is not specified in the following text.
Thats it.

In theory you are a copyright violator, Maailmameister, but I will not ban you if the footer requirement is the only flaw. I do not have the final say on this though.

by all means and manners maailmameister and anyone else that moves the footer to a different place is not in violation. by the requirements of the license v.3 it says:

An interactive user interface displays "Appropriate Legal Notices" to the extent that it includes a convenient and prominently visible feature that (1) displays an appropriate copyright notice[/b], and (2) tells the user that there is no warranty for the work (except to the extent that warranties are provided), that licensees may convey the work under this License, and how to view a copy of this License. If the interface presents a list of user commands or options, such as a menu, a prominent item in the list meets this criterion.

this was taken directly from the license under "terms and conditions". that means that as long as i have it on the homepage, even if i want to print it vertical from top to bottom, i can. no one, not even nick jones himself, has the right, as long as this license is being used to tell me that it has to be in the footer. the "footer" is in this case only being used as a reference point, probably because that's where it was put since the first code was written. this means that if i want to put it in a panel in nice white print (which is easy to read, i might add) so long as it's on every page, then according to the conditions, i can.

even if i received a mail from nick jones himself that he would handle it doesn't change the fact that i will never receive german help again for the page, and even if, it won't be good help. this is not a private page, i might add, it belongs to a registered club in germany. by registered, i mean that it's on the books in the court system here. that means that i have no other alternative but to turn over the threats and oppression to the president of the club and see if they want to take action. it's not up to me, i just build the site.

(edited)i just read this also:
If the interface presents a list of user commands or options, such as a menu, a prominent item in the list meets this criterion.

that means, to anyone reading, if i, or you, want to remove it and put it in my navigation menu with a page all to itself, then according to the license agreement... so it says "meets the criterion". i have read the agreement from front to back, and can not for the life of me find anything that says it has to be where the applicant for the license states. that would defeat the purpose of being able to change the code or the user interface as so stated in the agreement. just in case, though, i'm going to try and get a copy of the application to make sure that everything that i'm writing here is correct. when i receive anything i will pass it on to everyone here.

the interpretation of the thread http://www.php-fusion.co.uk/viewpage....?page_id=6 is most definitely incorrect.

"This means that the copyright footer of PHPFusion may not be altered in such a way that it doesn't display our copyright notice in a way that isn't "convenient and prominently visible", meaning that no popups linked to graphic images, no tooltip-like solutions linked to images etc, are allowed."

in no way, form, or fashion does it imply the before text... please refer to my text above about incorporation of the copyright in a menu option. it states nothing about having to stay in the positon from the author. convenient and prominently visible means that a panel is more than enough. it's convenient and direct for the eyes of the user. i'm open for any counter argument to any of this.

even at the bottom of the forum pages it doesn't say "powered by..."

i know, leave it to the american to read the fine print and nit-pick...

don't ban me for being right, or reading to the letter - the germans already did that! i might add that they are representing themselves as the "official site" of german php-fusion. not setting a good example for mr. jones.

just another 2 cents worth.... ok, that's 4 cents total.

have a good day!

Edited by RTamer on 03-07-2011 13:31, 13 y

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I am not sying you are wrong in your argument or your interpretation of the license text. But we have adopted the aforementioned text, with implications, as valid for PHPFusion.

Please rest assure this has been discussed thouroughly both by "ordinary" members and within our administration groups. Then again you may not be aware of this since you joined recently.

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Homdax wrote:

I am not sying you are wrong in your argument or your interpretation of the license text. But we have adopted the aforementioned text, with implications, as valid for PHPFusion.

Please rest assure this has been discussed thouroughly both by "ordinary" members and within our administration groups. Then again you may not be aware of this since you joined recently.

I have been reading as much of the discussions as possible, and for the most part I keep reading the same thing... someone wants, but someone else says no. It seems that no one is actually reading or using the license in their plight to bring this to an end, which brings me to that, and I'm sorry that this is turning into a bad romance novel.

Everyone wants to have a super system to display their content with easy to use modules. Some really don't care about the footer as it is, they're only interested in getting the information out there. Others want to change it so the graphic portion of the site looks very appealing. To say, the reason behind the license. It covers everyone.

So, two things here:
You made reference to my "interpretation" of the text. If you were to write: The light was shining silver off of the clouds. My interpretation would be that it was a sunny day, and my assumption is that it was not raining. I have made no interpretation of the text.

Quote

Displays "Appropriate Legal Notices", convenient and prominently visible feature, displays an appropriate copyright notice, tells the user that there is no warranty, how to view a copy of this License, a prominent item in the (navagation or menu) list meets this criterion.

These are the key words that apply.

You made reference to the "adoption" of the text here in the community, obviously between the author, super admins, and so on. The actual license gives in no way or form any reference to what a group of people adopt to be law or contract.

There are many people that want to have the sites as theirs, and I am in no way trying to take away the amount of work and testing that has been put into PHPFusion over the years. I "was" a member of the German site for a few years until the Admin and Moderator wanted to play GOD. I would gladly put the entire copyright, his photo, and the photo of the team on a page with a real nice text about the author and the work. I believe that to be a better promotional strategy for the Fusion Team than being deleted from the German page. Give credit where credit is due. At the same time, I believe that site should reflect the owner and his/her platform for their information.

I did, this morning, send an email to the FSF (Free Software Foundation) and the GNU hoping to get some kind of answer on the question that many seem to have. I will, if allowed, publish any answer that I receive about it. If I am wrong I will never say another word about it.

I appreciate all of you that have the intellect to discuss the matter instead of banning me for having an opinion.

mfg,
Robert

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Well we had our debates with FSF as well. In fact the current license, AGPL, was choosen after much discussion and mail exchange with the FSF, our main responsible for that is Keff. However, I am not sure we actually dicussed the topic about the copyrights visibility on the sites with FSF. Not that I recall, but then again I was/am not mainly responsible for its formula, just its adoption.

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I did, this morning, send an email to the FSF (Free Software Foundation) and the GNU hoping to get some kind of answer on the question that many seem to have. I will, if allowed, publish any answer that I receive about it. If I am wrong I will never say another word about it.

RTamer I have also sent emails to FSF on some license topics, copies given to Philip when on theme site.

The problem is you might get an answer from " support staff " as my email was answered.

" Support staff " give opinions, lawyers give opinions based on law made by a Judge.

My email answers had one line at the end stating the final answer can only come from a Judge.

Until then all us laymen are stating opinions of what we believe is right.

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RTamer, please PM me with the details of your banning from an NSS site and we'll look into it. We do not discuss disciplinary actions in public for obvious reasons.

As for the footer information, as far as I can see it's more a matter of tradition than rule. As long as it is legible, we would have no problem with it not being in the footer.

None of us are lawyers. Our support staff do the best they can with the information they have. However, for someone to be banned from an Official PHPFusion site they would need to have been proven to have breached either the Code of Conduct and/or the NSS sites own rules should they have such.

Rules and Regulations for National Support Sites

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@philip - I'll be sending you all of the information that I have in the morning (German time) as far as the PHPFusion German site goes. I completely understand your viewpoints on the situation.

In the 80's I took a semester of pre law for business management. Mostly just business legal and contracts, but enough to read something as simple as this.

Quote

-Mangee
lawyers give opinions based on law made by a Judge.

Lawyers aren't allowed to give opinions, per say, but do interpret laws, legal documents, and contracts that have been reviewed and approved by judges, other lawyers, or panels of some kind. What they tell you has to be able to hold up in a court of law assuming that it pertains to the point in question which, of course, gives the judge the ability to sustain or reject.

Hope you brushed up on your german Philip, but I can translate anything you need from the file.

Thank you,

Robert

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Please send the information also to me as I am one of the German admins and the first contact between Philipp and the German NSS.

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@gh0st2k - I can't attach any files to the pm's. If you want a copy, you are more than welcome to them. I need an email, per pm of course, and I will send you the pdf files.

Wie ich vorher sagte... ich kann mich nich vorstellen das ich in Zukunft vernünftige hilfe bekommen werde von der Deutschen Seite. Abwarten und Tee trinken!

mfg,
Robert

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I am sure you will get some reasonable help when Your are done with the tea.
And please stick to English on this site. ;)

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Sorry, that was just so gh0st2k would defintely understand it... wasn't intended to hide anything.

mfg,
robert;)

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Here are the results... your Fusion copyright is okay... but still not realy "visible".

You removed the theme copyright... that's one of the facts why your account was deleted. You're not banned, just your e-mail host was banned (this ban is removed).

Your site:
http://www.phpfusion-support.de/gh0st2k/rtamer.png

Original Copyright
http://www.phpfusion-support.de/gh0st2k/footer.jpg

It's not clearly marked as theme copyright, but we told you to add it again.

Here is also a translated part of your forum post, afaik you sent it also to Philipp:

Quote

Threat, threat, threat ... in my list I have 153 sites without your record (=> copyright)
over the last four year

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@gh0st2k
Well, if you are going to quote from the post, then I would greatly appreciate it if everything was quoted. The copyrights were in a panel (all of them). Your admins and moderators wanted them back where they were, which according to the license does not have to be. Please read the posts above, especially from Philip, who even agrees that a panel is ok. Second of all, it is clearly visible, even the links.

Quote

Sunflow1991 - Mach das Copyright schnellstens wieder rein (Put that Copyright back now!)

Quote

R3sponsabl3 - Admin - Copyright sofort wieder rein wo es hingehört und auch das C des Themeerstellers, ansonsten wirst du gemeldet und deine Seite offline genommen von deinem Hoster. (Put the Copyright back where it belongs with the "C" symbol from the author, or you will be turned in and your site will be removed by your hoster!)

Quote

Rubberman (me) - drohung, drohung, drohung... (all that comes are threats, threats, and more threats)

Quote

R3sponsabl3 - Admin - Deine wurde gemeldet, denn ich drohe nichtnur. (Your site has been reported, because I don't just threaten.)

Quote

Rubberman (me) - eure lizenz ist wieder da... (Your license is back again...)Bearbeitet von Janilein (edited from Janilein) my post was first edited from your moderator removing information that worked in my favor.

Quote

Janilein - Moderator - @Rubberman: Thread Closed! und das gilt für alle bisherigen und Künftigen
Beiträge die du verfassen tust solange du Copyrights entfernst. (... and that is for all earlier and future posts as long as the copyright is deleted.)

I didn't want to air all of this, but you did open up the door printing only enough to make me look like the bad guy here. I would appreciate it if you and your admins and your moderators read the license agreement. Please refer to post #8 here in this thread. This is what the thread has to do with right now.

I was never told to add it again, only compounded by different people. The fact is, according the license and Philip (post #13), I and/or anyone else are going to be "forced" to put it in the footer.

Only printing enough to show your side just raises my blood pressure. In the future please show entire problem. I don't like being the one to air dirty laundry.

My account "Rubberman" was deleted, because the entire day I could no longer log in... last night before I went to bed I registered the account again. If the account was not deleted, I would have received an error message. Instead, I received this:

Quote

Von: Sascha <kontakt@phpfusion-support.de>
An: Rubberman <rtamer@gmx.de>
Kopie:
Betreff: Willkommen auf PHPFusion! Deutschland
Datum: 03.07.2011 23:22:41

Hallo Rubberman, Willkommen auf PHPFusion! Deutschland. Hier sind die Login Details für deinen
Account: Benutzername: Rubberman Passwort: **************** Bitte aktiviere deinen Account, indem
du auf folgenden Link klickst: http://www.phpfusion-support.de/register.php?email=rtamer@gmx.de&
code=******************************************* Mit freundlichen Grüßen Sascha

My last post was at 23:17.
mfg,
robert

Edited by RTamer on 04-07-2011 16:32, 13 y

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